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So, if you choose to finish 6th instead of 5th, you're taking about a 1 in 3 chance of relegating

i beleive teams who are choosing it could calculate their chanches, other then in general in germany till now in the top div we hadn't a surprise. We had some 50:50 series, but for them you normally don't waste your games.

But to stay in germany, i had to argue against the !73 chanche of beeing relegated. We have human team in nearly all 4th division but none in the 5th, so they are free from relegation:

So lets count -> 1+4+16 = 21 serious relegation series

and 64 non serious relegation series, where maybe 20 are with bot participation - so they are nearly 60% chanche that the relegation is with 66% without a effect.

PS: They are series with 7th placed team as favorite, and even those aren't that rare ;)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 03/12/2010 04:01:07

Oh no, don't get me wrong. As I said at the end of my post, I think it's horrible for teams to tank to 6th place.

But there is also the flip side to this coin, and that involves the playoff teams. If you look at my league, all the playoff teams threw the final game of the season to prepare for the playoffs. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, because they are preparing for the playoffs.

I am just giving another angle to the tanking game discussion.

Last edited by GM-SherlockH at 03/12/2010 08:53:36

Now wouldn't teams have more (perceived) incentive to finish 5th if they know they won't lose that 1 training game (if a 3rd game is added for the first week for 5th place teams)? At the end of the relegation series, the teams involved would be ahead in terms of player development (all else equal).

You could solve it by having low gate receipts in relegation games. Not sure that even in real world there would be a pretty high gate in such a game.

If there will only be 20% of the spectators you expect in league games it won't be attractive to play these games. As like you mentioned you will also be punished from fans next season due to a lower ball in fans satisfaction.

For me I do not think that the training issue is the biggest one but still it would make sense if 5th place team has one more scrimmage than they currently has.

First off I want to thank you Charles for your detailed response. BB is the best game out there because of you willingness to get involved and work with the community. Kudos to you!!

As I have mentioned my main issue is with the fact that there is little or no incentive to try and finish high up in the standings. Obviously the playoff spots have a decent plus side, although many would argue that finishing 6th may be a better option if you are only going to lose in the first playoff game anyways. To me this is a major issue. I like to see tight races where everyone is fighting tooth and nail for positioning. Competition breeds intrest and that is something that should be capitalized on.

How to make it better is the tough part. There are plenty of great suggestions in this and other threads. I would like to see the merchandise, fan survey effects be far greater. Is it possible to add 'fans expectations'? It could be on a game by game basis or based on teams season standings. The fans expectations would dramatically influence merchandise and ticket sales, so teams that lose games that they should clearly win would be losing revenue initially.

Another possible solution is just give the fifth place team another scrimmage. In a game where training is what improves your team and generates the majority of your income, losing one or two weeks of skill training is massive. It also drives a bigger wedge between the playoff teams and the fifth place team. I know everyone says that you can 'team train'. But stamina and free throws do not help the fifth place team become a forth or better team the following season. Players with higher skill are more effective and worth more on the market, stamina and free throws have little value in that reguard.

I do agree that relegation is extremely costly, teams are taking a serious chance in 'tanking'. I think the BB community is grateful that you have developed a game that DOES allow teams to make errors and a game that DOES allow quality managers to make up ground. But by taking the fifth place teams income AND training away, you are creating more seperation between the average teams and the elite. It does however close the gap between the fifth place team and the teams that finish 6th-8th, which can create a cycle that is less than ideal.

I have clearly written far to much, so if you have read this all...THANKS!!!

-beanerz



Last edited by Mod-beanerz at 03/12/2010 11:18:27

We still don't understand why the 5th place team don't get a Tues scrimmage.

Because the reward over 6th place is enough.
Like it was shown earlier, 1/3 of 6th place finishers relegate. 0% of 5th place finishers relegate.
5th place finishers get 1 less game for training. 6th place finishers have a 33% chance of losing the majority of their income for an entire season (or more if they do not advance for a while).

1 less game vs 33% chance of losing a LOT of income.
Which would you pick?