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Offensive rebounds, the big unknown

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This Post:
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315115.8 in reply to 315115.7
Date: 06/30/2022 03:46:49
BC Vitosha Sofia
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
794794
Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
does it make sense to take into account the effect that repositions will have on OR when preparing a game?
It definitely does imo. I do agree with everything Bigeasy said and provided examples for. 100%.

My underlying question for you would be: how are OR chances distributed amongst the five positions?

We know PF and C tend to get the most DR chances by far. Are, however, OR chances more evenly distributed among the five players on court (resulting in more RB mismatches, dependent on tactics chosen) or are they the same as DR chances?

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
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315115.9 in reply to 315115.8
Date: 06/30/2022 04:31:29
Talentinho
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
473473
Second Team:
De Grote Spelers
A few questions based on the repositioning:

When there is an offensive rebound the repositioning triggers a mismatch, but how does that mismatch come to existence? Does the defensive tactic influence if said mismatch is available? For instance, if there is a mismatch with a big on PG, is it possible that during the calculations a big on pg gets matched up with another player because of a switch (either with m2m or a zone?) or is that mismatch set up for all the calculations. Also, does the positioning of a player during the shot influence the OR probability? If so, that could have an effect on certain tactics.

This Post:
11
315115.10 in reply to 315115.9
Date: 06/30/2022 18:23:12
Roter Stern Stuttgart
Bundesliga
Overall Posts Rated:
297297
In my opinion - or it's my hope - better rebounding of the guards still gives an advantage for (offensve-)rebounds as a Team. Maybe the player by himself won't get the rebound, because he is to far away from the basket. Still he is better in boxing out...!?

Last edited by Ted the Threat at 06/30/2022 18:24:55

Manchmal ist man der Hund - manchmal der Baum.
This Post:
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315115.11 in reply to 315115.7
Date: 06/30/2022 22:47:16
hornets247
IV.5
Overall Posts Rated:
190190
that's essentially asking, for a team that contains a player like Furen, when he starts at PG or starts at C, is there a notable difference in team offensive rebounding rate?

*team offensive rebounding rate will be defined as (# of offensive rebounds+# of rebounds the opposing team touched out of bounds) / # of missed shots (and missed last free throws)

unfortunately I don't think the information is readily available and needs to be tracked by hand - it shouldn't be too prohibitive (I think a couple of hours work would give us an answer that's statistically meaningful), but maybe someone good at hypnotizing can just woo Justin to provide us some numbers... :)

This Post:
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315115.12 in reply to 315115.8
Date: 07/01/2022 03:19:42
Folgado Lakers
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
43014301
Second Team:
Folgado Lakers II
I've been looking at Guillén (47271250), the cornerstone of my next project with the Spanish team. These are the results if we take into account all his games since he was 18yo:

PG position - 1.5 OR per game
SG position - 1.8 OR per game
SF position - 2.0 OR per game
PF position - 2.5 OR per game
C position - 2.9 OR per game

For Cull, the other big I'm building (47044425), it looks pretty similar:

PG position - 1.4 OR per game
SG position - 1.7 OR per game
SF position - 1.8 OR per game
PF position - 2.2 OR per game
C position - 3.9 OR per game

This Post:
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315115.13 in reply to 315115.11
Date: 07/01/2022 03:26:06
Folgado Lakers
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
43014301
Second Team:
Folgado Lakers II
Yeah, exactly. This is actually the most interesting question. But first we needed to solve the previous one

I'm sure most of us have been more than once in a position where we are preparing a game and we have to choose between running 1) a pretty good LI without repositioning or 2) a slightly better LI with repositioning. In such a case, it would be very valuable to know whether it is worth trying option (2) or if the fact that OR would decrease make option (1) more effective.

This Post:
00
315115.14 in reply to 315115.12
Date: 07/01/2022 03:40:16
BC Vitosha Sofia
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
794794
Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
The stats of your trainees would imply a more even distribution of OR compared to DR then. ;) Maybe you could combine those OR stats with total rebounds for the same players and positions. Then tracking ratios will be quite easy.

1) a pretty good LI without repositioning or 2) a slightly better LI with repositioning
Slightly better rating-wise but is it really more efficient?

Another question: Why is it that a player, played oop with defensive switching always gets a much lower match rating than he would if he played in his "nominal" position in both offense and defense?

Last edited by mink0ff at 07/01/2022 03:49:26

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
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315115.15 in reply to 315115.14
Date: 07/01/2022 03:51:34
Folgado Lakers
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
43014301
Second Team:
Folgado Lakers II
To your first question: yes, I prefer playing LI with let's say IS 20 in PF and C than IS 19. The question is: is it worth gaining a certain marginal offensive difference by making the switches or could Offensive Rebounds be a stronger argument than this gain in order not to do the switch?

This is why I made the poll. Now that the original question in the poll has been solved, we can all try and solve this one.

Regarding your second question, I've never (NEVER) looked at the ratings because I find them useless, so I cannot answer.

This Post:
00
315115.16 in reply to 315115.15
Date: 07/01/2022 04:08:02
BC Vitosha Sofia
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
794794
Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
The question is: is it worth gaining a certain marginal offensive difference by making the switches or could Offensive Rebounds be a stronger argument than this gain in order not to do the switch?
Yes, I understand the question perfectly and I have had my answer for me, personally for a long time. For the sake of the discussion I do not wish to type it in directly though.

Again, what you focus on in the quoted statement is the marginally better IS (20 <> 19), possibly coupled with some DV advantage as well. That 19 IS player has to play guard (presumably) in offense though in order for the 20 IS guys to attack the paint. So again with a question - what else do you lose by playing your C/PF as guards with defensive switching?

The focus in the current thread is on OR, so we are discussing this. And yes, in my humble opinion ORs is one of the things one would lose by imploring the defensive switching. There are other things to be lost/gained too though, possibly even more important than OR.

In any case, back to your question, if the margin is so small (20<>19), for me defensive switching is definitely not worth it.

I've never (NEVER) looked at the ratings because I find them useless
Glad we agree on this one.

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
00
315115.17 in reply to 315115.16
Date: 07/01/2022 04:19:19
Folgado Lakers
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
43014301
Second Team:
Folgado Lakers II
Obviously, there are a hundred things that need to be taken into account when making the repositioning. But in this thread, we're speaking about whether OR when repositioning is one of these.

Thanks for giving your opinion on this! I feel the same but I'd love to somehow quantify it in order to give it a certain weight when comparing it with other factors that I usually take into account when I decide whether to reposition or not.

This Post:
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315115.18 in reply to 315115.17
Date: 07/01/2022 06:43:08
Team Nook
EBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
289289
Second Team:
Team Nook Yellow
Another question I have, obviously playing a 2-3 zone increases the rebounding rating. Does that increase offensive rebounding as well as defensive?

Logic says it should only improve defensive rebounding, but I feel the games I've used 2-3 zone that my offensive rebounding is increased as well.

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