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Thank you so much!! Appreciate all your hard work! :-)

Thanks. It's fun! :-)

I don't know if we're going to have an actual all star match though, but that would also be an interesting idea.

I was referring to the middle of the season when the Allstar matches across all leagues occur.

If you were referring to the League we are creating somehow having an Allstar match...I can't see how that would be possible unless it was a purely fantasy version?

As for keeping stats on players and teams during the League---as mucvh as I love stats (for my own team)---I think this task to great for anyone.

MVP votes, however, could be achieved and monitored. :-)

I don't know if we're going to have an actual all star match though, but that would also be an interesting idea.

I was referring to the middle of the season when the Allstar matches across all leagues occur.

If you were referring to the League we are creating somehow having an Allstar match...I can't see how that would be possible unless it was a purely fantasy version?

As for keeping stats on players and teams during the League---as mucvh as I love stats (for my own team)---I think this task to great for anyone.

MVP votes, however, could be achieved and monitored. :-)

I kind of knew what you meant, but that awoke the idea of a possible all-star match. Like, as you mentioned, with the knowledge/ideas/resources we have at the moment, would be very difficult to organize also because we only have control on our own players and do not have any other platform in where to simulate BB games results "reliably".

As for MVP votes - why not, however, how would other teams have the complete idea of leagues' players (who is better than who) without being able to compare player stats? :) I bet I can hardly keep up with my own players, let alone all other competing teams players... ;P

Keeping stats for the average Joe for the duration of regular season would be too much very likely, I agree. Someone of us would have to have enough time and decent enough knowledge of scripts etc. in Excel (or know coding) to be able to harvest all the important stats automatically from the box scores. Don't look at me, I'm not the person who knows how to do that... :D

Neither do I know how to build a website, but actually I think it would be ideal if we'd even have an own website for the homegrown league in the future as well! Not a necessity of course, but I'd find that kind of a cool addition, which would make BBHG league feel even more special!

Yeah, very difficult to do (ALL Star Game & MVP voting comparisons).
This is the limitations with PU games. A PL, however, would be much easier but...as we have discussed...not an option.

I think we can do vote for date of 2games/week.

All-star game sounds nice but I am not sure if we are able to do that.

I think MVP of league is possible.
Each of us can choose one player from team and managers will vote for league MVP in the end of the season. You can't vote for your player, and lets say you give 1st,2nd,3r place(and maybe 4th and 5th also) so we have some points to establish MVP(simillar to normal BB league).
However, it may be hard because we don't see all games -right?
Maybe each manager can sum-up all stats of chosen player from games, with no cheating



Last edited by Paul George at 1/17/2025 3:56:59 AM

I think we can do vote for date of 2games/week.

All-star game sounds nice but I am not sure if we are able to do that.

I think MVP of league is possible.
Each of us can choose one player from team and managers will vote for league MVP in the end of the season. You can't vote for your player, and lets say you give 1st,2nd,3r place(and maybe 4th and 5th also) so we have some points to establish MVP(simillar to normal BB league).
However, it may be hard because we don't see all games -right?
Maybe each manager can sum-up all stats of chosen player from games, with no cheating

I think this is why it is difficult. Not because managers will cheat, but for two reasons:

1. Every manager competing would have to provide the details of games only they can see.
2. We would be relying on this to be done evry week. Not sure that could happen.

Yes, I suppose private league also keeps some kind of stats (it´s been years since I had a supporter package, so I can't remember). If any one of us would have "tons" of money, a PL would likely be the way to go (we could pay supporters for all teams willing to participate), but it's unlikely any of us are in a such financial situation.

And as league remaining free forever for all qualifying teams is something that will never change, PL is not an option. If I'll change my view on this (paying supporter for all myself), then you guys know I've hit the jackpot... xD

All-star game sounds nice but I am not sure if we are able to do that.

I think MVP of league is possible.
[...]
However, it may be hard because we don't see all games -right?
Maybe each manager can sum-up all stats of chosen player from games, with no cheating }:>

I think this is why it is difficult. Not because managers will cheat, but for two reasons:

1. Every manager competing would have to provide the details of games only they can see.
2. We would be relying on this to be done evry week. Not sure that could happen.

@ Paul George and MrJ:
The design choice of keeping PU games private is in one sense understandable and justifiable. However, as this choice of not revealing game scores to all doesn't serve our league all too well, I think some of us from commissioner/staff should send the links to the weeks games box scores to (the newly established, when we eventually create it) league forum so that we all could see each games results at the end of the week. (It would be ideal to add all links into a one forum post).

Anyway, I think an open policy with box scores is the way to go. However, even having open box scores doesn't remove the problem with having enough reliable information at hand to make an informed decision on MVP voting. Nobody of has let us know that they'd know how to or would be eager to keep up/update certain league stats weekly/every other week etc., or let us know how they'd know how to create a script/code that'd extract the information automatically from the box scores that would be sent into a league forum. Maybe we need to convince a manager that created buzzer-manager.com to join the homegrown movement and then he can help us with this... ;D

And like MrJ mentioned, not every manager would be willing to put in the extra work that updating (or even calculating at the end of the season) their best players key stats would take, so I'm afraid it's not simply realistic to get us all do that..

So while open box scored don't solve our problem with the MVP voting though, luckily it's the least of our challenges to get things going, and doesn't necessarily need to be solved within this time frame at least. Rules, penalties etc. are more crucial to a fair and balanced play, so I'll try to focus on those in the coming weeks - having said that, it's certainly welcome to write about other aspects too, please don't get me wrong and keep up the good momentum and keep this thread active.. :)

And in terms of creating a new forum thread to the homegrown teams league, we can do it as soon as we decide the name. Of course it could be ideal (but not mandatory) if we'd already at the point of establishing new forum thread would have most of the groundwork done, also for instance in terms of those informative pages that MrJ has been working on (and putting lot of effort into them - thank you for your work!), but preferably also in terms of key rules/penalties etc.

Speaking of forum threads, I was thinking that we might have quite a lot of discussion during each season, so would you guys (also rest of you HG managers, not only Paul George and MrJ) also think we should open a new thread for every forthcoming season so that it might be easier to find information/discussions for non-supporters, as search function is not available for non-supporters?

These 300 or 1000 message long threads are absolutely dreadful and useless if you want to find some information/certain discussion... At least if threads would be divided into seasons, then one could try to memorize how long ago this and this discussion took place. And of course (if I'd get a say on it) if we implement a new thread for each new season policy, we'd add the welcoming message with information links at the close proximity of "the start of the season welcoming message", so that it would feel easy for also newcomers to find all essential information from a given seasons forum thread.

As for league rules, yet we try to keep them somewhat simple, everyone can just see Buzzerbeater official rules and you'll notice it contains multiple pages of worth information (and actually lacks many unwritten nuances, that I've had to hunt from the forums, which I've found very unhandy and unnecessarily difficult in many cases). And as many basic rules of BB leagues can be applied to homegrown league, not everything needs to be written from zero so to speak.

But as far as an original definition of homegrown team goes (which is applied to this forthcoming homegrown teams league as well) it is technically also possible having bought back your own draftee and still be counted as a homegrown team.
This, in some way could create situations in where a teams "salary rating" has been raised by hundreds of thousands of dollars by purchasing back players that he/she has sold before when they had a lower salary. I do not mention this following suggestion because I'd think we'd need to exclude such teams from the homegrown league; I still think we can and should welcome such teams.

However, having said that, there is of course a questionable side in this, as some purists would say. I think if you've gained more salary by purchasing back your own draftees (selling when salary was lower than when you purchased them back), then for the sake of openness and fairness I think we could/should make some kind of compilation/table/information page of all teams together (in one table) into which we sum up some essential information such as certain team wages (for instance top 8 or top 12 players salaries), and into that table add for example following symbols:

+++++ = team has never purchased any players
++++ = team has never purchased other players than their own draftees and has not gained a current salary advantage with such purchases
+++ = team has never purchased other players than their own draftees and/or players of their teams nationality
++ = team has purchased players before, but is now fully homegrown (as per Eliocroca CB's manager LOPO_s' original definition - or we could add a link to MrJs' article too) and has not received a current salary benefit by buying own draftees back
+ = team has purchased players before, but is now fully homegrown (as per Eliocroca CB's manager LOPO_s' original definition of homegrown - or we could add a link to a MrJs' article too) but has received a current salary benefit by buying own draftees back. In this case, the amount of benefit in $ would be mentioned in parenthesis after a + sign.

For instance, you've initially sold 3 players with total wages of $15000, and now buy them back and their total salary is $215000, so by your team in that table there would read "+ ($200000).
I think this would be very welcoming addition, so that everyone can see with a one glance which kind of former strategy each one of us have chosen, and most importantly, whether or not we have received a salary (read: skill) benefits by purchasing back our own draftees. :)

Speaking of forum threads, I was thinking that we might have quite a lot of discussion during each season, so would you guys (also rest of you HG managers, not only Paul George and MrJ) also think we should open a new thread for every forthcoming season so that it might be easier to find information/discussions for non-supporters, as search function is not available for non-supporters?

I think having a new thread for each season is an excellent idea for the reasons mentioned. Not only do I think it is a great idea, it might be the right time (now...or very soon) to start this Season 67 HG Discussion thread.

It could serve a few purposes:

1. Allow for a poll in it's creation to decide on the name of the league. (we can use the names put forward so far and any others that a forwarded in an immediate time-frame).
2. This current thread is getting long and a new one---which starts with a name poll---would likely engage more managers too. (We can continue to use this this current thread to finalise rules & penalties)
3. Given that we are not including lots of game results and discussion in the Season 67 HG Discussion thread as the games don't commence until next season, this new thread could begin with:

1. Name of the League poll (easy to do)
2. What it means to be HG (ready to be linked)
3. How to use PU tokens (ready to be linked)
4. System of play being used (already decided - we just need to create a succinct page to link) (or cut and paste)
5. Rules & Penalties (tba)
6. List of teams competing in Season 1 (easy to create)

However, having said that, there is of course a questionable side in this, as some purists would say. I think if you've gained more salary by purchasing back your own draftees (selling when salary was lower than when you purchased them back), then for the sake of openness and fairness I think we could/should make some kind of compilation/table/information page of all teams together (in one table) into which we sum up some essential information such as certain team wages (for instance top 8 or top 12 players salaries), and into that table add for example following symbols:

+++++ = team has never purchased any players
++++ = team has never purchased other players than their own draftees and has not gained a current salary advantage with such purchases
+++ = team has never purchased other players than their own draftees and/or players of their teams nationality
++ = team has purchased players before, but is now fully homegrown (as per Eliocroca CB's manager LOPO_s' original definition - or we could add a link to MrJs' article too) and has not received a current salary benefit by buying own draftees back
+ = team has purchased players before, but is now fully homegrown (as per Eliocroca CB's manager LOPO_s' original definition of homegrown - or we could add a link to a MrJs' article too) but has received a current salary benefit by buying own draftees back. In this case, the amount of benefit in $ would be mentioned in parenthesis after a + sign.

For instance, you've initially sold 3 players with total wages of $15000, and now buy them back and their total salary is $215000, so by your team in that table there would read "+ ($200000).
I think this would be very welcoming addition, so that everyone can see with a one glance which kind of former strategy each one of us have chosen, and most importantly, whether or not we have received a salary (read: skill) benefits by purchasing back our own draftees.

Firstly, Wagner, I would like to thank you for all your time and effort regarding the planning of this league. You certainly are putting a lot of thought into what is needed.

Secondly, and with respect, I disagree with what you are suggesting regarding 'labelling' HG teams because of their purchases or lack of. For me, you are either HG or not. Simple. I think if we start adding all of these symbols (labels) then we are going to start creating 'classes' of HG teams. I think you would agree that this is not the best way to begin a new community.

I am not just saying this becuase I would have a '+' or '++' rating next to my team's name, but because I can't see how the labelling of teams in this manner would be a positive thing for our new league and community.

Yes, there is a small opportunity for teams to exploit the HG aspect in the way you have mentioned (increased salary by buying back previously sold/fired players), however, this would be more an exception than the rule. Furthermore, what is the real problem if this did occur more?

What are some scenarios:

A) A team deliberately, premeditatively, fires/sells players drafted regularly, then waits (seasons!) in the 'hope' of one day buying them back...to win more games?

I don't know about you, but if I adopted that strategy, how could I ever know when it might pay off...if ever!

B) A team happens to buy back a former player which increases their team's salaries and their chance of more wins in the HG League.

Again, why should such teams be labelled as different because they had the funds to improve their team within the definition of being HG?

I'm sure there are other scenarios, Wagner. But, again, I do not see how labelling teams in the manner you suggested, essentially creating 'classes' (never been good in RL historically) of HG teams, will add value to our newly created league.

These are my own opinions and I welcome constructive criticism.