BuzzerBeater Forums

As a former Princeton basketball player who was taught the Princeton offense by John Thompson III, and the person who programmed the Princeton offense into BB, I can assure you that BB's "Princeton" offense, only bears a passing resemblance to the real intricacies of the Princeton offense.

This is because in order to really simulate what the Princeton offense does, we would have to be simulating things completely differently... and I mean a completely different framework for thinking about how the game is run... and that simulation would be too computationally difficult and fragile to work well as a game.

We think the BB Princeton offense represents a space of tactical focus that isn't represented by the other offenses, and being former Princeton grads we thought it bared a resemblance to the sort of tactical focus the Princeton offense creates, and so we chose to name it the "Princeton offense".

Okay then, so it's not "The Princeton" offense. So the C does not handle the ball the most, and there aren't as many back door cuts, but "BBPrinceton" bears a passing resemblance?

If it's focus is slow paced, 3-pointers and easy layups, and it bears a "passing" resemblance, is it safe for me to assume that your PG brings the ball up, passes to an open wing player, if no open wing player, PG passes to C/PF in post. IF C has no shot, he looks for open wing player, at the same time, any of the other four players may be cutting to the hoop. The ball continues to move around until a 3-pointer is taken or a close inside shot is taken.

Or rather, is this a highly possible outcome with BBPrinceton?

I'm not going to get into the underlying dynamics of how we simulate the offense... but yes, Princeton offense is generally slow paced and results in generally more 3 pointers and layups

That's very Cheney like response. We all know that it is generally more slow paced and generally more 3's and layups are attempted. You can't comment either way on if what I described is a possible outcome though?

If Princeton relies on players passing more and ball movement, would it be fair to assume a team of players who have solid, passing, driving, and outside/inside shooting skills is what one would need to run BB Princeton effectively?

Wow quite an impressive answer. Really hard to argue with that even though some people will try.

I have run almost every offence except this one. There is no point in people saying you need good passing, driving, handling, jump shot and jump range in all your players to run this. If you had that you could run anything so what would be the advantage of Princeton? Can someone be a little more specific? What do you really need? My understanding is the most important things are:

PF- Passing
Guards/SF - JR and DR

Is that close?

Not really. They said BB Princeton is not exactly like real Princeton, but it is most similar to that system considering what the other systems do.

If I had the money, this is what I'd do. Assuming your team is decent...

PG-

JS: 6-8 JR: 10-13
OD 11-13 H: 9-13
DR: 11-14 P: 12-14
IS: 4-7 ID: 3-5
RB: 3-5 SB: 3-5

SG-

JS: 8-10 JR: 12-14
OD: 11-13 H: 8-12
DR: 10-13 P: 8-11
IS: 5-8 ID: 4-6
RB: 4-7 SB: 4-6

SF -

JS: 7-10 JR: 10-12
OD: 9-11 H: 7-9
DR: 10-13 P: 7-10
IS: 8-12 ID: 7-10
RB: 7-10 SB: 7-10

PF -

JS: 6-9 JR: 7-10
OD: 5-9 H: 5-8
DR: 8-11 P: 5-8
IS: 11-15 ID: 11-15
RB: 9-13 SB: 7-10

C-

JS: 2-4 JR: 4-7
OD: 3-6 H: 6-10
DR: 8-11 P: 8-11
IS: 12-16 ID: 12-16
RB: 13-17 SB: 9-11

you can play whatever roster you have. if you have outside minded offense and going to lose strongly in rebounding or have a big difference in enthusiasm - use princeton, thats all.

Not really as that's leaving out the importance of secondary skills in particular offenses.

The GE and training systems are complex enough that I don't think anyone will be cracking these details AND making them public. Some of these basics (ie: "Princeton results in more 3's and layups and requires players to have lots of passing", etc) would be useful in the game manual. This would give teams something concrete to build a team and training system around. Maybe this would help support the need for having multi-skilled players and make them more valuable.

In real life you can actually see players on the court, how offenses and defenses move, there's nothing secret about the game that can't be scouted. Here we have players with hidden skills and some abstract box scores. It's a pretty confusing game for even the most experienced managers. Sometimes it seems we're just throwing darts at a board blindfolded.

Much of the useful information may come from BB comments randomly around the forums. If I want to know why my 10 JS center can't hit a jumper on an atrocious outside defender, where do i start? Did he just miss a shot he should have made, was he picked up by another player, etc. I'll never know.

Last edited by brian at 03/08/2010 11:31:36

Well put Brain, hey whose leg do I have to hump to get a dry martini around here?

I'm in the process of compiling some comments I think should go in the GE. The commentary is sub par compared to the rest of the game.

leaving out the importance of secondary skills in particular offenses.
there is basketball ABC for that, too much (thinking) is allways bad. just my opinion.

If you dont have secundary skills on your outside players(PG-SG-SF) i dont know how you want to play princeton right. You really need lot of passing in the 3 outside man's and another skills like driving and IS also helps a lot. So you forgot the D ;)