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Outside attack too strong ?

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125704.96 in reply to 125704.45
Date: 01/02/2010 12:37:51
Overall Posts Rated:
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Moreover, imho m2m and 3-2 work too well against look inside (in most cases much better than the 2-3 defense, which was "designed" for that).

On the other hand we can find another point of view - it is not a coinflip as it was for many teams before (will he go inside o outside, which I hsould choose...). 2-3 Zone has significant boost in rebounding that's probably why BBs made it weaker in the new engine.

(not saying things are balance; a bit surprised auch a thread was not created more then a season ago)

This Post:
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125704.97 in reply to 125704.52
Date: 01/02/2010 12:42:50
Overall Posts Rated:
154154


2) There is no possible way to train such inside players. Are you really going to train a guy earning $200,000 in salary at a position where he sucks? I even recently suggested in the Canadian off-site forum that a young player with great outside skills and sub-par inside skills should be trained as a C... Everyone else (besides me) thought that was a complete waste. But I really do not see another way to develop these multi-skilled inside players.

Not arguing but there are managers doing that. Not really 200k (salary as an indicaton of quality is overrated) because if oyu have a 200k player you already went the wrong way and created a monster.

This Post:
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125704.98 in reply to 125704.60
Date: 01/02/2010 12:48:04
Overall Posts Rated:
154154

"Basic" guards have 4 major skills (JS, JR, OD, Pass). "Good" guards probably have about 6 (add HN and DR).

"Basic" big men have 4 skills (IS, ID, Reb, SB). "Good" big men probably have 5 (add JS).


I can't agree with that and I'm sharing this opinion with several world top managers who would disagree with your post too.

This Post:
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125704.99 in reply to 125704.72
Date: 01/02/2010 12:52:24
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
Altered shots show up in the viewer but not in the boxscore. If you ignore the value of altered shots, it will definitely make shot blockers seem less useful.

And the exact quote is? Shoudl we assume a shot is altered everytime the shooting players is defended?

This Post:
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125704.100 in reply to 125704.95
Date: 01/02/2010 13:27:31
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.

U r saying: I think this is part, again, of that whole discussion about giving centers secondaries. Is it a pain to train? Yes. Does it disrupt your ability to win games in the short-term? Perhaps, depending upon whether you are still in the tournament. But it's also immensely valuable, because everything in the game engine is done as a comparison..

Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.

Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.

Last edited by JohnnyB at 01/02/2010 13:34:43

This Post:
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125704.101 in reply to 125704.100
Date: 01/02/2010 15:24:24
Overall Posts Rated:
409409
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.


You should start looking at the division where most of the players who engange in this discussions are playing.


Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.


It is the same pain. Playing your C as PF is similar to play a PG as SG or viceversa. If you are talking about the pain that might be train IS or ID to a PG, it is similar to the pain of training OD and JR to a C.


Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.


I'm not sure if there is a lot of people thinking that training inside players is worse than outside ones. What many people already knows is that the market does have more Inside players than outside ones, this is main reason about why they are more expensive.

We can start a speculative and not very useful conversation about why are we seeing this diference. Instead, I would say that something like: People do not think that training outside players is better than inside ones. If they really believed, we will be seeing a lot more PG and SG in the market.

This Post:
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125704.102 in reply to 125704.101
Date: 01/02/2010 15:41:27
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.


You should start looking at the division where most of the players who engange in this discussions are playing.

Those that doesnt posting here doesnt mean that they dont giving us any feedback.

Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.


It is the same pain. Playing your C as PF is similar to play a PG as SG or viceversa. If you are talking about the pain that might be train IS or ID to a PG, it is similar to the pain of training OD and JR to a C.
No its not. I havent see anywhere that inside skills are so important for the G's. Anyway G's have 7 skills to train instead of big men that we have only 4

Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.


I'm not sure if there is a lot of people thinking that training inside players is worse than outside ones. What many people already knows is that the market does have more Inside players than outside ones, this is main reason about why they are more expensive.

We can start a speculative and not very useful conversation about why are we seeing this diference. Instead, I would say that something like: People do not think that training outside players is better than inside ones. If they really believed, we will be seeing a lot more PG and SG in the market.


Well training big men is faster, just 3-4 skills. Thats an eye poping dont u think? Also having u r national coach to push u to create a monster is an issue too.

Last edited by JohnnyB at 01/02/2010 15:53:43

From: Exos

This Post:
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125704.103 in reply to 125704.100
Date: 01/02/2010 16:10:45
Overall Posts Rated:
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Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.


Sorry for just answering your first point.
I am from a low league and from what I've seen SB is a pretty valueable skill. In my opinion it is amazing how people in this thread tend to ignore the advice from the BBs. They have the insight and if they say SB is a skill to have, why ignore it? I discussed a match in the 'OMG why did I lose...' thread not so long ago. There one was complaining about his defeat while the other team made 17 visible blocks. I am convinced that this won the game and we are playing in a very Shot Blocking eluded world.

Cheers, Exos

p.s. although I find that 'X rotates over to help defend the play' not really SB related as well. But now I know


From: JohnnyB

To: Exos
This Post:
00
125704.104 in reply to 125704.103
Date: 01/02/2010 16:24:19
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Ok my question. Do u rate SB higher than ID? considering the salary? Thats the argument. What SB is giving us extra compared to the same salary ID? Lets say that u r training an Allstar C, what would u chose to train? U have only 4 options. See now the problem? 65k salary C its not something great reather average. 65k G can be real good to great player. Why? couz u can train 7 skills all worth it, and the alone debatable very cheap (driving)

Edit:Still wonder, if big men have to block shots why g doesnt have to steal the ball and train to?


Last edited by JohnnyB at 01/02/2010 16:27:23

From: ned

To: Exos
This Post:
00
125704.105 in reply to 125704.103
Date: 01/02/2010 16:35:11
Freccia Azzurra
IV.18
Overall Posts Rated:
821821
Second Team:
Slaytanic
Exos I can understand your point but even if I change completely my idea about SB, considered that players are trainable for 6 seasons, you will prefer to have a center wth lvl 15 in IS, ID and rebound or having a center with lvl 12 in IS, ID, REB and SB? Probably (but I'm not sure) SB is not completely useless but then the question is: the time spent training SB could be better invested training other skills?

Last edited by ned at 01/02/2010 16:36:13

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