BuzzerBeater Forums

Yeah unfortunately we suffered a bad loss to Australia. They deserved the fair victory and even if we managed to beat Hong Kong we are still in the mix since hk VS aus will decide our fate also.
Let's see which will be the truth....

While we are waiting for our official PR by pro shot, I will share my thoughts on the matches so far.
We managed to win against Hong Kong in a thrilling final quarter. Our choice was to push the ball in order to improve our scoring rating without forgetting our defensive side which was brilliant thanks to our more effort too. Something bad instead happened on the offensive and it can be addressed also in Mondays match against uae.
We are able to produce many points from our pg or sf and of course our big man too are capable, but we're experiencing pure panic on our shooting guard role.
The reason to me is quite a mystery since ratings are quite good, Ocampo matchup rating against uae was really high and off the bench leocadio did fine. But Ocampo and before him Salinas too produced very low scoring %.
And that wasted our difference point a bit, because they took many shots unfortunately. Trying to imagine a flow, against uae our pg gotardo and gayoles took the majority of our shots, so they were less incline to allow our offense to flow better. Maybe Ocampo received bad shots selections or even was more incline to pass the ball rather than shooting identifying not a good matchup. But again not 1 out of 10 against a 4 outside Def.
He is 1/19 in his last two matches, a terrible scoring rate unfortunately and we desperately need points in order to reach the semifinal.

Top three against hk and uae:
1- defense: we are keeping our opponents always lower than 70 or 80 points. That would be amazing if on the offensive we can do a better job
2- rebounding: our big men are doing a great job overall. Even in bad days in shooting like manikan on Monday, he locked is opponent down. And all the rebounding we are getting are more shots from us and less shots for them.
3- bench: we have a well rounded team in which between bench and starters the difference is really light. We are going down against top teams because they have better starters (and it can be easily proved by the fact we are playing with 2 20yo in starters - Rios and Salinas - with one training season less than 21yo) but often our bench has positive plus minus and great impact on the match.

Flop three:
- ocampo: mentioned above. He is our Pick the brick winner trophy in the last days but I am confident he can be back on target. No blame on him, since it is the game engine who's fucking without a reason.
- gotardo and patient: gotardo loves to shoot. But there are better shooters. And so? Gotardo shoots anyway. 😂
- foul trouble: against uae we helped them a lot with silly fouls. Guardia 5 fouls, lagare 5 fouls.. We allowed 33 free throws. A huge number compare to our 14.

I am really angry about today's match because we wasted three great quarters with this fucking garbage time.
I posted again a suggestion to put it as optional since in U21/NT especially many times it happens that standings and medals are decided by difference points.
Like this time, and to waste a so good advantage because of this shitty and nonsense garbage is something which really makes me pissed of. It's not a complaint Asia-related, since other teams had garbage and our position cannot be addressed (only) to garbage losing points but it is a matter of logical sense vs idiotic game engine behavior.
That said, Australia took a huge risk by doing tie against HK. We needed AUS to win or to lose in a short range, instead they lose badly and we cannot manage to cross the 40 points in DP falling short a bit in the 4th quarter.
Now the situation is really painful, since we're second but not so ahead of Australia and quite too far away from Hong Kong.
So basically we lost only one match and we should finish 3rd if nothing strange happens.
Today I saw a bit of Philippines vs Australia and the huge fight, that reminded me a topic I kept hidden: fairness.
Against Australia there was a mutual tie agreement confirmed twice by australian coach who then decided to go Normal cheating his word. Nothing illegal, nothing would have changed (we needed a tie because we had Hong Kong the week after), but in a "no winning" game cheating your word is something I simply don't get.
Bad blood between Australia and Philippines, it seems so. I hope to have my revenge on the court, also because of today's brawl, revenge on BB, maybe revenge for GILAS too in the future!

This season was for me to learn a bit how ASia championship is all about. So I apologize if I made some mistakes or if the results will not be the one expected but as I said it is a longshot. I am working for the future and basically this roster was extremely weak (our current 20yo in a 5 on 5 match against the 21yo probably would win, that says much).
Few notes:
- we lack some managers to cooperate with us. Too many are still training multiple roles, which is really slow for U21 porpouses. Single role training with a good trainer level is the basis to produce world-caliber players. If you have the will to cooperate just contact us via BB Mail or via Discord, I would be extremely glad to provide training plans and so on. Just to provide you an example, my 18yo filipino Serg Cargado did 12 pops this season and there are still 2 weeks left. He crossed the 70 TSP at 18 yo.
- big men and primary skills: having all multi skilled big men is useless if we do not have the centerpiece. HK had a 1.5M DMI center, China two of them, Australia 2 too, without mentioning Taiwan. Our best big man reaches 800k DMI, rather a half of the others. That's because we have very good skillset all around but we lack primaries. Same goes on the backcourt, our 20yo have more OD than the 21yo, which is something pretty weird this season and will be pretty good the next one What I am trying to say is that we need to differentiate the trainings a bit.
- write me, I'm loving my days as your coach, I love my staff, I'm learning some filipino words (like Pepe @Gengi) and I would like to slowly introduce myself in your BB Life if you want. Next season i will begin to run some fantasy games if you like. But I'm always open for suggestion or whatever!

Thanks a lot for everything guys. Fingers crossed for next week!

Ill chime in here as the Australian u21 coach. Ive been coach now for 10+ seasons, cant remember exactly how many. But you guys have always been my 2nd team. The main reason was the fun rivalry with coach morwood. So if we dont win the asain champs i always prefer you guys do.

Whinging on forums about managers is a dog act and i wont get involved. Mutual TIEs are sent by poor managers that cant play the BB game and need to try and control both teams. Its like saying we cant beat you, so can you not try too hard? We are allowed to play whatever tactics we want. Please dont try and control our team to benefit you, becsuse it is not what is best for us.

Good luck and i hope to see a Philippines v Aus final, as i always do!

Whitewind
Aus u21 manager

In fact I didn't blame you nor whine here. If you can read you can see "nothing illegal but cheating your word makes me sad in a no winning game".
We already talked quite much about it and I didn't even mention it on the forum until the very end since it was a crucial part of this season.
If you would keep your word we would have had more difference points in the standings. Quite clear.
You did not and this is the situation. So we need to wait for next week to see who will get to the semis but yeah, your opponent is quite easier than ours and hks.

It was funny to see Thon Maker so hyped to kick while during the nba season at times he seemed quite lazy. 😂
A huge talent indeed but I didn't get the start of the brawl.

Edit: just to say. I love rivalry too, even when they are not friendly anymore. So I can't wait for the next time we will play against because I will get my revenge or at least I will try to. 😂
It's funny you are treating the mtie like this, you can go whenever between USA France Spain Lithuania Italy Poland and so on and this is common practice. Not to convince you it is what you like. But at least to "slow down" your offensive terms about mtie is something for bad managers. Since basically we won everything.

Last edited by NdR619 - Pilipinas U21 at 7/4/2018 1:00:58 AM

Me and whitewind too except for this time. And as I said, nothing against rules but you know, I am an old guy who thinks his word counts. When I say yes (twice) for me it is yes.
I repeat myself, nothing would have changed since we were out of shape, had very few choices and Australia basically is too strong right now. Nguyen maybe is better even combining two of our players in the backcourt and the same goes inside at least for what dmi says about Frink. So even tie tie i am quite sure Australia would have won.
Less difference points for sure indeed. And now that counts quite much, don't you think?
So if I have to do an analysis of the season this is indeed a fact. Then I have no complaint, I already had rough talk with whitewind, he thinks he was right I think he was not. That's it 😊

Thats the problem. You think you have the right to say what i should and shouldnt be able to do. I took the extra points and its held us in a better position. You tried to control what our team does and i showed you that wont work. But by all means continue to bbmail teams before the games and tell them what tactics you think they should play. The thing i liked about good teams like france is they replied " it served me right for trying" when their mtie got broken. They knew it was poor form asking in the first place. I certainly didnt hear any whinging about it afterwards. Its just a power position worried managers use to try and win games they probably shouldnt, or the big nations try to pull on the smaller ones. Perhaps in hindsight you should have adjusted your own strategies rather than complaining about mine.

Anyway, like i said, good luck to Philippines. If we dont win in Asia (which we wont) then i pray Philippines does.

Last edited by whitewind at 7/4/2018 2:01:58 AM

It's you who came here to complain after I post on our forum. Defining my post a dog like behavior. So basically do you want to control how I handle communication? I shyly would tell you just in case to adjust your own communication strategy rather than complaining about mine.

Stop saying I am whinging because it's false. I am simply identifying one of the factor because of we are probably set to finish 3rd. Together with shape, garbage time and mistakes I admitted. It's just a matter of reading man, it's English, fully understandable. I do not say you have to like my post or to rate me. But you came here for what porpouse exactly? To let us praise you for cheating your word? As I said, things are done on both sides, we think opposite things but here's the Filipino forum and basically this is my home now and I am speaking with my people about what I think of all our season. You can have this conversation in your forum. With these two posts here you use 1000x characters than for your own country forum resume. 😜

Just to speak open because the topic is interesting. I am not a fan of mtie too, just because your opponent gains extra info. You probably are the 4th time I myself suggested a mtie. In 41 season in the game I mean. Clearly it is because we want take advantage of a situation, but if your (AUS) goal is to win it could have been an advantage too. Also you missed Gdp, you were stronger surely, but in case of losing? With a tie you would at least save enth.
That's why I asked and I usually deal with the fact someone says no. I tell France no two times. I didn't answer to Spain one time. Same for usa in the last world championship. All requests I received. I won't go on with this, but if you see I am not complaining for your normal, I am discussing your two confirmation. But as we talked, this is a matter of how we consider fair to play. You consider it Fair? That's fine with you. I do not and that's my way of playing. It's a lesson learned (just to steal your words in private) about who is a trustful person and who is not. But that's the bottom line I mean. Nothing to be discussed since our position are at the opposite.

But you can't come here to oblige me not to mention it, because to me it was a crucial part of the season. And I can be criticized by the Filipino guys also for this, so mentioning it is not an excusatio. You know, I love sincerity so I won't hide a fact.

Besides, I think Taiwan is impossible to beat. They are manhandling everyone, abusing of their well deserved home court advantage. I would be glad to see someone of our group claiming the gold but I think this won't happen unfortunately. 😅

Edit: I think you missed something about France Vs Bosnia some seasons ago and a mtie broken 😂 on both forums there was some kind of word's war.

Last edited by NdR619 - Pilipinas U21 at 7/4/2018 2:42:28 AM

You think you have the right to say what i should and shouldnt be able to do.

Who gives you the right to tell Coach NdR in the first place? Do not do unto others what you do not want others to do unto you. And now you are saying that he needs to continue sending BB-mail to opponents? This is my third season in the staff and I can claim that YOU are the only one who does this. Neither China, Italy (when Coach NdR was still coaching it), nor any powerhouse Coach Fabio faced had done the same thing as you do. You do not know how we worked hard to set every tactic until we received your BB-mail.

And about Coach Fabio, you convinced us to do TIE against you so we can face China in the semis instead of you. You believed that you have all the chances against Japan. Your real power is persuasion. Admit it. We fell under your trick but I was the only one against your proposal that time.

Maybe YOU should do setting up strategies in the hindsight instead of sending agreements. Silly "bloke".

I guess that is Australian's culture. Doing mind games, even being up by 30. Watch the rumble again to feed your satisfaction. You could have been Goulding.

Other countries should be aware of what you are doing. They should do the exact opposite to what is agreed upon. And please, do not boast your 10+ seasons to the one who started playing the game since Season 2. Are those seasons coaching Australia U21 worth for every Aussies to be proud of if you keep on sending messages to give you a better position in the Cup?

Now that this has been revealed publicly, prepare losing some key games in the next Asia Cup. May God heal your spirit.

For me, if you accept by saying yes to a agreement twice and broke it thats unacceptable always remember dont broke your words or promises because that can change a lot of things interms of goodblood between our countries. before you send me a mail that we must use Mutual TIE and i accept it and i follow your proposal fairly. but now you broke your words on us. thats unacceptable and i was disappointed because we put our full trust to a wrong people. finally we learned our lesson that dont trust to anyone. one last thing i might use CT before instead of TiE but through your sugarcoated words and i believe on it. i might cheat you on that time but i would not do it because i mean and stand on what im saying. im not angry with you coach whitewind on what you do on the agreement between you and coach ndr because you want your nation to be great but as you said we pinoys must learned our lesson now we learned our lesson and that is not to trust you anymore and btw we are not your 2nd team. peace coach whitewind but i need to state the facts peace.

Last edited by Coach Fab - U21 Pilipinas Headcoach at 7/4/2018 8:26:18 AM