BuzzerBeater Forums

. I have received exactly zero pops in Game Shape from training in four seasons ... zero. So I don't see how it can be less effective than that.

I don't think you are doing it right then. Either you are playing your players waaay too many minutes/too less minutes and expecting GS training to still make their GS rise, or you just haven't noticed when their GS goes from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9. GS training is still pretty OP for managers who manage minutes well and train GS. It is almost instantly 9 GS if you get your players 55-65 minutes and train GS that week.

And taking it out but leaving everything else would seem to give tacit approval to the rest of the training coding, which deserves no approval.

I'm confused... Either I don't understand what you were trying to say, or you didn't phrase it very well. Taking out GS training wouldn't mess up any training coding...

So the "Other" I would vote for is a complete overhaul of training ... seriously. Some of it is good, but some of it is so illogical it begs forgiveness.

Like what? What about the training process right now is illogical? I'm interested. I personally think that the current trianing system and setup is pretty solid and fun.

I voted for "Other." Game Shape training cannot be made less effective than it already is, in my experience, since it cannot be worse than zero. I have received exactly zero pops in Game Shape from training in four seasons ... zero. So I don't see how it can be less effective than that. And taking it out but leaving everything else would seem to give tacit approval to the rest of the training coding, which deserves no approval. It is illogical, expensive, pointless, frustrating and anti-intuitive ... a severe black spot on an otherwise very enjoyable game.

So the "Other" I would vote for is a complete overhaul of training ... seriously. Some of it is good, but some of it is so illogical it begs forgiveness.

What in the world are you talking about??

"Let It Be"

I give my vote for the 1st one. You have all options open for your training. Some people prefer to have better skills on their players and to train, and other prefer to have a good GS, so their players give their maximum at that moment, freedom of your choice.

Training skills have already one boost, later you will not pay the Overextension Tax. So just let people make their own decisions.

Cheers

Managers making a run at titles in Div I usually have saved enough
therefore they don't have to worry about the over-extention
I currently am losing over $250K per week
Plus An OET of $63K
and that's with a $127K exemption
However I saved over $10 million for this run at a title
I would prefer the continuation of regular training but I can't
partly because the managing minutes part doesn't work very well
even though my players get 60-69 minutes
Teams training GS do much better
I must train GS

The problem is that the managing minutes part doesn't work well, not the GS training. This should be fixed in my opinion. Even your player get the ideal "minutes" in that week it doesn't mean that he will have a good shape..

"Let it be". I don't like this tendency lately to take away options how we can play this game. The BBs already reduced the effectiveness of game shape training. Day trading is made harder. Overspending for some time is punished by the overextension tax. A lot of rules that always take away options of how to play this game.

A big part of this game are tradeoffs, e.g.:
1) You want to train 3 players in one position training? You will not have the best results in games because a player who plays 48 mins a game is tired at the end.
2) You want to win a championship and want your players to be in the game shape? Train game shape. But don't blame anybody that your players don't get skillups.
3) You want to win at any cost and buy a team that's just too expensive to be financed by your weekly incomes? So you have to pay the overextension tax.

I want to have a choice which way to take. If we take away still another and another option sooner or later we'll have everybody do the same thing in the same way. I would prefer to have people compete in different ways. I hope I could make myself clear here.

I totally agree with you. Let everyone choose their style of playing, simple.

I don't think you are doing it right then. Either you are playing your players waaay too many minutes/too less minutes and expecting GS training to still make their GS rise, or you just haven't noticed when their GS goes from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9.

You're right, I missed the improvement that happened. My bad. I was wrong. I never realized that every "pop" and every "drop" was listed every week in the training report as long as I had all the boxes checked ... except Game Shape. Now what kind of sense does that make? Why shouldn't GS be listed if everything else is? I never saw any manual entry to reveal that it happens but isn't listed, never saw it mentioned in a forum. It might be mentioned somewhere, but what kind of sense does it make that everything should be listed in the training results ... except one thing? Why should it be incomplete like that?

I'm confused... Either I don't understand what you were trying to say, or you didn't phrase it very well.

You're right, I didn't phrase it very well. Again, my bad. I consider some of the training programming to be completely illogical. Changing one thing but leaving the rest in place might be taken as tacit approval of what isn't changed, and I don't think it deserves our approval.

Like what? What about the training process right now is illogical? I'm interested. I personally think that the current trianing system and setup is pretty solid and fun.

Well, the obvious thing is the playing-a-player-out-of-position element. It has no game logic and doesn't reflect real life, either. I think one underlying illogic is that "positions" are trained rather than players. Do you think an NBA coach trains his "positions?" No, he trains players, individually or in groups, or the entire team at one time. He is training one or more players, not one or more "positions." Another underlying illogic is that if a player doesn't get game minutes, he doesn't get training, either. That also has no game logic and completely misrepresents how it works in RL. The 11th and 12th player on the bench for the San Antonio Spurs may not get game minutes this week, but they train every bit as hard as the guys who get game minutes, maybe even harder because the guys getting game minutes have to take it easy in practice or get worn down.

That's all great and good, however so..
Why make game shape as random as it is?
Another choice you didn't mention is to limit minutes from our better players
Some of us do that by employing a balanced roster
so as to train and also try and win and get minutes under control
and yet we end up not even close to what we should get in game shape
and by the way you clearly have not kept tabs on GS training
teams that play their guys up to 90 minutes a week still end up with 9's
that doesn't sound like:

The BBs already reduced the effectiveness of game shape training

Last edited by Headless T Gunner at 12/28/2014 11:58:22 PM

Reality is full of randomness. By the way: I have all my training data, including game shape and minutes since season 3. There is some randomness but playing your players between 48 and 70 minutes guarantees you a good game shape of 7+.

Have you ever played Hattrick? There is no way to influence game shape except make your players play. Players randomly lose their shape and you have no way to influence how they get it back. It's just cruel sometimes because they don't just drop to 7 which is considered bad here. They sometimes even drop to 3 or worse. And you just have to wait for ages for this guy to recover. BB is so much better designed considering game shape.

No, he trains players, individually or in groups, or the entire team at one time. He is training one or more players, not one or more "positions."

Yes, and players play positions so I dunno what the problem is. There are sooo many different ways to trian your team whether it be one position or two or team training and it is pretty easy to train players whether they are out of position or not.

The 11th and 12th player on the bench for the San Antonio Spurs may not get game minutes this week, but they train every bit as hard as the guys who get game minutes, maybe even harder because the guys getting game minutes have to take it easy in practice or get worn down.

Which is why I love scrimmages. You can get your lower players and reserves minutes and training. There are no scrimmages in the NBA, there are in BB, which is beneficial for the aspect of training.

I personally have no issues with the training, but I suppose I can see how training players out of position especially in higher leagues can be frustrating.