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Knowing what I know, I am a huge fan or the True PG build. I believe that on a BB team, your PG should just be able to completely shut down his opponent, while distributing and running the offense. For this build, two main skills are required. You need OD and PA. on the side you need some HA and DR to reduce turnovers and create more shots. I trained a player like this, Brett Bowers. He was the starting USA U21 PG in his time, and went on to start as a PG in the NBBA all last season, clearly I am not the only one that values this build.

While he did have lower JS and JR than the other players on the team (9/7 JS/JR), this did not stop him from shooting 53% from the field against world competition. In fact, I still believe that Phyr should have started Bowers at PG against bosnia http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/36171/boxscore.aspx. Just goes to show you that lower JS/JR can still be effective while you increase the PA skill to increase flow.

However, I do believe we need a variety on the team, for games where we want to trick our opponent, or just mix things up and try something out. My IDEAL Lineup would be a true PG with high OD and PA, a LI SG who has high JS,DR, and IS, with still a decent enough PA skill to be a distributor, a defensive/balanced SF with OD/ID, and IS who can defend most players on the court, while still distributing on the offensive end with some PA. So in my IDEAL offense, yes I would like 14-13-12 PA on my guards and SF, while I utilize some donkey bigs at PF and C. However for obvious reasons we cannot run my ideal offense every game and we are also limited by the players that are trained for us. I do not want ALL of our guards to be 12+ PA necessarily. If we had a SG with strong JS/JR and only 9 or 10 PA I would consider using him in an outside offense.

So in regards to my ideal players being worth the decrease of skills in JS and JR and a few points here or there, I do believe its worth it. Because my ideal guards go along with my ideal lineup. So in reality the ideal passing levels depend on the type of offense we are running and the variety of talent available, but for my personal Ideal guards in my ideal offense, 14/13/12 would make me more than happy, and I believe they are truly worth it.

We have a lot of people out here who are committed to the cause. But I have always sensed one of the big turnoffs to the general population when it comes to NT matters, particularly the u21 is a closed mindset about how a player is to be built. Now most of these idioms are rooted in solid logic but it has to be a little bit off putting to some sensibilities. We should encourage experimentation and from this we will find new and different ways of thought. And from this we can in time field a team of eclectic pieces combining conventional wisdom with a bold sense of exploration which I think will not just solve the riddles that have perplexed us for ages but will also bring new ideas and voices into the fray.

Those people don't exist. If they did, would've already told me both of my election wins that he said nothing.

The real root of the problem that nobody seems to understand in all of this has absolutely nothing to do with who specifically is running the team. The issue is that specific people will not ever train their players or their team in a way that gets them to the NBBA ever. Certain people play this game their own way, and will never get anywhere because they don't consider the advice given to them. That could be from an offsite that barely still exists quite honestly to someone in the NBBA trying to mentor a D.IV team up.

You cannot compete in the NBBA level without building cash reserves first. You cannot sustain a run without some sort of financial backing to build your arena up to 17000+ seats, and you have certain periods of time where your salary still pushes past that if you want to be competitive for first in the NBBA. Most of the time, when you build u21 players, you are not going to compete for an NBBA title any time soon. it has been, and will always be, a way for you to make money fairly quickly. If you take a Superstar potential or PAS potential player in a draft, 90% of those will be at best bench guys in the NBBA. same if you get one off of the transfer list in that potential range. but you know what you can do? you can commit all in to u21 development at the cost of your team. Someone with no foresight will see that as slamming their team. People with some foresight will do it. why? take a look at my utopia team.

Dennis Lester was acquired for 400k, Long Mock for 5k. I trained them for three seasons, made 800k in profit without selling them by keeping my salary near the floor while being at least 5th place competitive, and selling out my small arena for the most part in the 4 seasons i had them. I sold Lester for 3.1m, and Mock for 2.3m. 3.1 + 2.3 + .8 in 4 seasons is the cash i had to go out and reinvest in arena, more u21 talent, or HOF/MVP guys to cornerstone a long term run. thats 6,200,000. I bought Young Li to save him from foreign management for this latest u21 run and only made 400k on him, but lomax should turn for 1.3-1.5m and Richey i turned 300k into 2.4m, which made me even more money. my first team in the US if i sold Pham right now would probably be in the 9-10m range.

The reason why the competitive teams are competitive right now is because at some point they tanked and got their money situation sorted out and developed their next HOF/MVP players for the future. The reason why a lot of people that train u21 players end up being successful down the road with their club team is because they have that financial success. The only difference between someone who is on the offsite and someone who is onsite right now is that the offsite member is simple. The offsiter went there to make sure they didn't miss out on information that could make them successful. Some people don't need the offsite to tell them how to be successful. Thats fine by me frankly, if you learned how to make good financial decisions and made yourself into an NBBA team than thats awesome. but maybe for those long term D.IV teams and D.III teams who haven't gotten anywhere, at least read this message and figure out that you need money to be competitive before trying to buy veteran players who fall apart in 3-4 seasons and leave you back close to 0 cash. I could care less for offsite participation as i have left the offsite for the most part (not on the discord anymore for example), but at least take the time to understand how you can get better before slamming people for telling you to tank and get you finances in order.

/endrant

I am a longterm division 5 and division 4. I have stayed in those divisions long enough to the point I have a chance at a round of 64 cup run championship run and best foreign players in the league. my first two teams were learning points I took data and found the right path and appropiate path to go the optimal way up to NBBA. I have 20 seasons all in division 5 and division 4. Winning the Division 4 championships is right on time.

I tracked the transfer market in my first team and have predicted by myself how deflation will happen and its happening right on time. I know what players I like and what player builds I like and dont. I make 100k a game in division 4 and is capped in the league.

I am running for Domincan Republic under 21 and am going to build that team up to where its in good standards. Maybe they stayed in division IV because they want to learn the game and haven't quite figured it out like I did.

Nobody is here to listen to you brag about your characters or finances or how you built your arena. You talk about it as a pathway to NBBA success... and yet you never got to the NBBA yourself did you?

Your methods are from the past. Based off of past tactics. Past skills. Past economies. All things in the past, and with no seeming regard for the future or how things are evolving. Things are evolving, slowly, but evolving none the less.

Yelling at people, calling them stupid, saying they have no foresight. Great plan. Thats really helping everyone. Way to represent yourself as a former u21 coach.

I now give even more credance to Ivess and his legitimate concern as now there is a documented rant by you that for all intents and purposes is an admission of it.

The past needs to be left in the past. What's needed is success in the future. And that works by not dwelling in the past. Past cabals, past boys clubs, past tactics, past builds, past successes. We need future success, what are we working towards. What are we building?

Let people play the game how they want to without trying to force them i to YOUR ideal of a cookie cutter.

I’d of quoted you... but that was a Wolph-esque rant. Took up way too many characters.

The real root of the problem that nobody seems to understand in all of this has absolutely nothing to do with who specifically is running the team. The issue is that specific people will not ever train their players or their team in a way that gets them to the NBBA ever.

I respectfully disagree with you fury. I believe that the U21 staff's priorities are to reach out to managers and help them train solid players. If they say they don't want to train them, or if they say they want to train them differently then we would normally suggest, THAT IS THEIR DECISION. It is not our place to tell what they have to do. It's their team and their choice. It should be no concern to the U21 staff if a manager ever makes it to the NBBA or not. The NBBA has no connection with the U21 system. I personally have made it to d3 once in my 20 seasons as a manager. I never made NBBA. However I was still able to train multiple U21 players. If a manager wants our advice on how to run their club team, we can definitely offer it. But the difference here is we offer advice, not tell them what to do. There is a difference here. Tell them what you think they should do, and if they don't listen, then so be it. Walk away. The U21's concern should be solely focused on helping managers train solid players, and building connections with those same managers. If we criticize for never making it to the top, how will that make them feel? Personally, whenever a manager talked down to me before I was on the U21 staff, I found it offensive, and still have very little respect for the managers that did so. Every manager has their own ideas for a perfect player build, or the way that you should build your team for success. And that is fine. And if you want to share that idea? Great! But do not speak negatively about them just because they didn't do the same thing you suggested.

U21 is here to help... not to force. To all of those voters out there who are reading through this and taking sides, know I am not just another member of the "boys club." I have my own sets of beliefs and values. Sure some may align with a group of other managers, but as you see here, I can also be independent. I was a member of the scouting team while fury was manager. As anyone who read this post can see, I am not the same as him. We may both be from the "boys club," but we still have our independent beliefs.

And finally, I'd like to remind everyone that this whole situation that may or may not of happened, occurred in the past, with different staff members and a different head of staff. If I am elected, I guarantee that I will message all of my scouts personally to ensure nothing like this ever happens, either again or for the first time.


Help... don't force.
Thank you

Last edited by Nick at 4/14/2018 4:42:06 PM

Couldn't care less about the u21 anymore or the u21 coaches past or present. the attitudes of people like you are why spain and france win time after time and the US will not win in most seasons, regardless of development strategies. If you don't like that there is one efficient way to train and math has proven otherwise, best look for a different game altogether, because math says it's true. The talk is nice but not worth much given it didn't work then and it won't work now. If you want to run for it and try you can, will not win gold.

There is a difference between being stupid, and being stubborn or self-centered, which is more of the accusation i have made in here. I'm guilty of it to, although this account has done nothing but develop u21 players since i returned so meh, i guess you win that argument since that is all you care about. Feel free to ask some NBBA or upper end D.II managers how they made it there, i don't think that many made it there without loading up at least a few million.

Last edited by FurY at 4/15/2018 12:11:52 AM

Couldn't care less about the u21 anymore or the u21 coaches past or present. the attitudes of people like you are why spain and france win time after time and the US will not win in most seasons, regardless of development strategies. If you don't like that there is one efficient way to train and math has proven otherwise, best look for a different game altogether, because math says it's true. The talk is nice but not worth much given it didn't work then and it won't work now. If you want to run for it and try you can, will not win gold.

Interesting concept...
Try comparing YOUR player Pham. To MY player Routhier.

They're almost identical...

So,
that means.... its also your attitude why Spain and France win time after time.