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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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This Post:
11
300580.21 in reply to 300580.19
Date: 8/16/2019 9:03:16 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
I've got some legit questions for not only the candidates, but also the community.

1) Khenry and Teemo (in his own ways) are more than qualified to be NT manager. In fact, in my honest opinion, with help from the group of managers we have in the NT community I think anyone could really do it. My question though is what will you do to continue the progress that has been started? As a background, the NT community was at an all time high in seasons 18-26ish. After Magiker there was a drop-off. It got to the point where there was absolutely nobody to help with NT when I took over as manager. I failed at engaging the community, as much as I hate to say it. There started to be a little momentum in the NT community again and then Sahand took over and we tanked again. Khenry is now coach and the NT community has been the most active that it's been in awhile.

So, with all of that said, how to we continue to engage the NT community and build upon what has been started? And Teemo, how do you plan to take what Khenry has started and take us from point A to point B?

2) There has been a lot of discussion about SB. The belief is that it's not useful at U21 level but can be at NT level. The argument is that it hasn't been tested at U21 level, but yet there is a lot of push back towards actually testing it. Right or wrong, the thinking is that for U21 level offense is more important so that everyone can carry the load. Do you think it's the same for the NT? How might you see SBers fit into th NT?

3) Similar to SB, there's a belief that 2-3 zone is useless. I'd like to hear your opinions on 2-3 and if it's viable or not? What player types might be useful in a 2-3?

4) TSP is huge at the NT level. We see a lot of foreign NTs have guys with high TSP. SFs playing guard and even some PGs that are able to play SF or PF in an outside offense. With that being said though could you see a niche for guys that are pure guard or pure big with minimal secondaries?

5) We have seen a lot of NT bigs with large salaries. A lot of people in the community fear the large salaries and would rather commit to making high TSP builds but lower salaries. Do you have an argument for players who may have larger salaries? (Obviously these players usually have very high inside or outside skills).

6) What's your feeling about REB? A lot of people hate REB on guards because of the salary increase.

This Post:
00
300580.26 in reply to 300580.25
Date: 8/17/2019 8:14:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229

3/ I have tested 2-3 zones several times (one full season using it with my utopia team in season 35 with SB specialists as PG and SG positions) and I think that this tactic is flawed somehow. It can work (versus inside offense) but only 2 or 3 out of 10 games, which is not enough. I can only remember one Euro final where it worked : (33956) So it is definitely a tactic I won't use at the NT level.


I will just add that I just went through an entire NBBA season never giving up 100 points, running exclusively 3-2 or 1-3-1, and I had a lot of SB. A couple seasons back I ran a 2-3 in a PL final against a team of not NBBA caliber and gave up well over 100. It was a limited sample but it's another point to add to yours - essentially, that SB isn't what's broken about 2-3, it's that the zone itself is too flawed.

This Post:
00
300580.27 in reply to 300580.19
Date: 8/17/2019 4:08:24 PM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
703703
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
I also don't know how you can compare me to Sahand

OoOoooh, that was a low blow! If this was a boxing match I’d almost certainly give Khenry a red card and he’d be forced to take a shower with your local rugby team whether he liked it, or not.

In your defense, you’re cousin is a total babe!

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: FurY

This Post:
00
300580.28 in reply to 300580.27
Date: 8/17/2019 4:15:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
a 2-3 zone from every bit of testing i did was a tactic that simply didn't work as intended and until the day (if the day occurs) that it gets a tweak, there really isn't much reason for NT or u21 to consider running it.

maybe someone out there has some way of utilizing it that i haven't seen, but i just smh when it is run for the most part.

also, are tools broke or am i just not allowed into them? Not that i have much interest in this game at this point, but would be sad if they are dead again.

Last edited by FurY at 8/17/2019 4:20:42 PM

From: A-Dub

This Post:
33
300580.29 in reply to 300580.14
Date: 8/17/2019 4:17:54 PM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
703703
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
Roast me as you like, but when Knott is on NT guess who’s gonna be keeping him in good GS...

Not you...

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: Sixth Man

This Post:
11
300580.30 in reply to 300580.29
Date: 8/18/2019 8:35:22 PM
Triple-Double
III.6
Overall Posts Rated:
8888
Can we get a -1 ball function @Marin ;)

From: khenry

This Post:
00
300580.31 in reply to 300580.21
Date: 8/18/2019 9:53:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
487487
Sorry this took so long to get a reply. Picked up a number of extra shifts for the final weekend of the Iowa State Fair.

1) It will take continuing the growth and re-interest in participating in the NT that we've done. That includes further engaging Discord members(@everyone lol) and being more engaging on-site. My on-site posts dropped off after I got laid off from my job IRL, but I'm in a more stable position to retake those up again, as well as what was mentioned in my speech, for managers to join a kind of "email list" where I will BB-Mail essentially the same discussions being held regarding the team on Discord. I would also like to bring more responsibility with those assigned to opponent scouting, but I know the more people that are engaged and participating the more that jump at scouting opponents on their own. Having a regular schedule of someone doing that would help us in game planning and bring more responsibility to managers besides the NT head guy.

2) I'm a guy that has fallen more in love with SB each season, with part of that being a real life obsession with the defensive end of the floor. SB can be hard to see the impact of since altered shots don't show up in the box score, but that is definitely something that has an effect on the game. That said, a player does need to be able to impact the game with the ball. Where I disagree on its use is that you can only impact the game from scoring. Lower scoring but higher PA on a defensive specialist something I would say is more than sufficient at any level, depending on where any significant holes are earlier in the training years.

3) I'm in agreement that 2-3 may need to just get fixed, regardless of the players used. Last season where we experimented against China, much to the dismay of the French that would have preferred to see us go LI/M2M instead of trying things in a meaningless game for us, the small ball lineup in the 2-3 with Princeton on the offensive end was interesting. Would I use this in another game against a top team? Most likely not unless a distressing week of injuries and poor GS forced us into a desperate move, but even then a different defensive tactic would likely be better.

4) High TSP tends to be a good barometer for comparing players, but there are places for maybe a more niche player. I agree with Teemo here that the C spot is likely to be the one with the lower secondaries and you can safely get away with it more there. On the pure PG thought, I'd much prefer the guards be as high TSP as possible for versatility and PA seems to lose some effect past certain levels.

5) Having versatile, high TSP is valuable and so is getting the right skills on certain players. Having a high TSP big makes him versatile for a number of offenses, but so does having high primaries which leads to a higher salary. My argument for players with higher salaries would be the distribution of skills that lead to those higher salaries and their effectiveness not only for the NT, but also for the particular club team, if they can handle the finances. End of the day we have to work with club managers who pay the bills, and do our best to find a compromise that helps them and hopefully us.

6) I wouldn't say I hate RB, but I see the cap space it takes up and if its between RB and just about any other skill I'd rather have that other skill on the guards.

I once had a team with 1757 players and was $25,835,360 in debt. This is not that team. Join the Discord group open to anyone, but especially for USA managers to improve your club or get involved with the U21 and NT programs (https://discord.gg/cKpNkt2).
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