BuzzerBeater Forums

I totally agree with you. Let everyone choose their style of playing, simple.

I don't think you are doing it right then. Either you are playing your players waaay too many minutes/too less minutes and expecting GS training to still make their GS rise, or you just haven't noticed when their GS goes from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9.

You're right, I missed the improvement that happened. My bad. I was wrong. I never realized that every "pop" and every "drop" was listed every week in the training report as long as I had all the boxes checked ... except Game Shape. Now what kind of sense does that make? Why shouldn't GS be listed if everything else is? I never saw any manual entry to reveal that it happens but isn't listed, never saw it mentioned in a forum. It might be mentioned somewhere, but what kind of sense does it make that everything should be listed in the training results ... except one thing? Why should it be incomplete like that?

I'm confused... Either I don't understand what you were trying to say, or you didn't phrase it very well.

You're right, I didn't phrase it very well. Again, my bad. I consider some of the training programming to be completely illogical. Changing one thing but leaving the rest in place might be taken as tacit approval of what isn't changed, and I don't think it deserves our approval.

Like what? What about the training process right now is illogical? I'm interested. I personally think that the current trianing system and setup is pretty solid and fun.

Well, the obvious thing is the playing-a-player-out-of-position element. It has no game logic and doesn't reflect real life, either. I think one underlying illogic is that "positions" are trained rather than players. Do you think an NBA coach trains his "positions?" No, he trains players, individually or in groups, or the entire team at one time. He is training one or more players, not one or more "positions." Another underlying illogic is that if a player doesn't get game minutes, he doesn't get training, either. That also has no game logic and completely misrepresents how it works in RL. The 11th and 12th player on the bench for the San Antonio Spurs may not get game minutes this week, but they train every bit as hard as the guys who get game minutes, maybe even harder because the guys getting game minutes have to take it easy in practice or get worn down.

That's all great and good, however so..
Why make game shape as random as it is?
Another choice you didn't mention is to limit minutes from our better players
Some of us do that by employing a balanced roster
so as to train and also try and win and get minutes under control
and yet we end up not even close to what we should get in game shape
and by the way you clearly have not kept tabs on GS training
teams that play their guys up to 90 minutes a week still end up with 9's
that doesn't sound like:

The BBs already reduced the effectiveness of game shape training

Last edited by Headless T Gunner at 12/28/2014 11:58:22 PM

Reality is full of randomness. By the way: I have all my training data, including game shape and minutes since season 3. There is some randomness but playing your players between 48 and 70 minutes guarantees you a good game shape of 7+.

Have you ever played Hattrick? There is no way to influence game shape except make your players play. Players randomly lose their shape and you have no way to influence how they get it back. It's just cruel sometimes because they don't just drop to 7 which is considered bad here. They sometimes even drop to 3 or worse. And you just have to wait for ages for this guy to recover. BB is so much better designed considering game shape.

No, he trains players, individually or in groups, or the entire team at one time. He is training one or more players, not one or more "positions."

Yes, and players play positions so I dunno what the problem is. There are sooo many different ways to trian your team whether it be one position or two or team training and it is pretty easy to train players whether they are out of position or not.

The 11th and 12th player on the bench for the San Antonio Spurs may not get game minutes this week, but they train every bit as hard as the guys who get game minutes, maybe even harder because the guys getting game minutes have to take it easy in practice or get worn down.

Which is why I love scrimmages. You can get your lower players and reserves minutes and training. There are no scrimmages in the NBA, there are in BB, which is beneficial for the aspect of training.

I personally have no issues with the training, but I suppose I can see how training players out of position especially in higher leagues can be frustrating.

There is some randomness but playing your players between 48 and 70 minutes guarantees you a good game shape of 7+

Sadly 7+ as in some 7's and some 8's
Can't compete against GS trainers with players mostly 9
I get it, that's the way it is, however:
This is suggestions

There are plenty of unrealistic things in BB.
Can we change them all, no.
If you change the positions of training than players could be able to play instead of him.
I think that training with positions is logical.
It is because the simple idea of guys learning to do that stuff is in in game experience.
Do you get better in practice (even tough we do not have them), yes, but you don't test out your new skills until the game.
If you don't play weird position then you won't be able to try those skills.

No, he trains players, individually or in groups, or the entire team at one time. He is training one or more players, not one or more "positions."

Yes, and players play positions so I dunno what the problem is.

The players wear uniforms. By your reasoning, they might as well train uniforms.

Players play many positions, and the "positions" are highly fluid. A real coach still trains players, not positions. He doesn't say, "Tomorrow I am training shooting guards. Anyone who wants to train as a shooting guard tomorrow show up at 10 AM." He trains players, people, individuals. Training "positions" has no logic either for the game or for RL.

Training in this game is a lot like a stone in your shoe. You can have it there so long that you become accustomed to it, even grow a callous and barely notice it. You eventually become indifferent to it. But it is still nothing better than a stone in your shoe.

I want to have a choice which way to take. If we take away still another and another option sooner or later we'll have everybody do the same thing in the same way. I would prefer to have people compete in different ways. I hope I could make myself clear here.

I agree

I think everyone talking about choice is right, no point taking away another option on how to play the game but training game shape still seems to give some players (in some situations) a pretty big advantage..

I don't want to move the discussion away from the original topic but maybe the answer is to change normal training, so maybe any players that get 40+ minutes of training the week before not only get their pops but a temporary performance boost for the next week?

I think time to create a new staff that is co-trainer who is only be able to train just game shape and stamina.What do you think?