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I happen to enjoy the builds they make even though I've haven't even made it to D3 yet. Why would they scale it down? Any offense/defense works in lower divisions and anyone can make a dominate SBing big in lower division but it doesn't mean it works in top leagues. No one needs to study anything to see if these scale downs work. Any type of team can be successful in lower divisions. You can create any team you like and be successful very quickly. You can easily scale the skills like many have said, it's not hard. Scale it to triple 12s or 13s it doesn't matter it will work. You can win just by managing GS, Enthusiasm, and GDP. My team sucks and I finished 2nd in my division.

They are making builds they can play and make an impact in D1/B3 games not some lousy D4 game. I want to hear about finished builds not a build that has triple 11s. I want to hear factual data not false data. Somethings that work in lower leagues doesn't proof that it works. To prove that a skill or offense/defense works it must be successful and work at the top levels of BB.

Simply scaling down the biggest teams to smaller scales may work or it may not work.

I disagree with this and I respectfully disagree with the majority of your statements on this topic. Manon isn't ducking you or anyone from what I can see. I personally agree with his perspective to a high degree, and I don't quite understand why you are trying to re-argue the triple-17's that he talked about, as it doesn't correlate with what you are stating and I believe you misunderstood what he meant. He was saying that players with high skills can still be salary efficient at a top league if you punt some other skills that might not be as useful and exchange them for a lot more shotblocking. He is not saying that teams in D.IV-D.III have or need players with 17+ skills, he is simply explaining the builds that are salary efficient and still effective players.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 7/30/2015 5:45:55 PM

EBW, I think you missed my point entirely. Manon and others are arguing that simply scaling down the skills and salaries of teams in top leagues allows managers in the lower leagues to have success by using the same strategies that they use in the top leagues, and using the same builds (just smaller overall). [EDIT: That is the reasoning offered to try to make talking about these triple-17 players somehow relevant to lower league managers. To his credit, he eventually backed off this idea.] My point is that while this sounds good, maybe it is true and maybe it isn't. No one has ever analyzed this, and unless and until someone does so, there is no data, just opinion.

Nova Nation seems to agree with me:

Any offense/defense works in lower divisions … Any type of team can be successful in lower divisions. You can create any team you like and be successful very quickly.

However, his post is all over the place and I'm not sure what point he is trying to make.


Last edited by Mike Franks at 8/1/2015 12:20:07 AM

I'm agreeing with them... I'm saying you don't need to analyze anything to prove that it works it's lower division. It will work because anything will work in lower divisions. Scaling down the skills will work no data needed.

Thank you for clarifying. Manon and the expert from Japan are the ones saying without data that scaling down what works in the upper leagues is the way to be successful in the lower leagues. I didn't think you were agreeing with that whan you say "anything will work." I am also inclined to believe many, many things will work in the lower leagues, although maybe not "anything."

Nope, I understand completely and I disagree with you. I think you can always scale it down and have it be a very reasonable comparison. Sorry for the confusion.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 7/31/2015 12:09:55 AM

Nope, I understand completely and I disagree with you. I think you can always scale it down and have it be a very reasonable comparison. Sorry for the confusion.

Of course you can "scale it down and have it be a very reasonable comparison." I don't disagree with that. But is it a winning approach at the lower levels? I disagree with Manon and the expert from Japan that it that is the only or even the best way to win in the lower leagues. They present no data to that effect, and it has been my experience that plenty of other approaches can be successful at the lower levels. See it now?

Last edited by Mike Franks at 7/31/2015 12:30:23 AM

Nope. I guess I'm dumb or just not focusing hard enough. My bad.

Playing as PG shouldn't be big problem because he can play in defence on different position.
When player is great in defence and weak in attack it will be work only if his profits in defence is higher than his loss in attack. I doubt you have enough compensation. You want to reduced opponent's attack to 4 players but you set only 4 players in your own attack. So you need to fight to retrieve something what you gave up without fight.
Presented numbers don't convince me. Experiment was made in lower division. If you need 16 ID + 18 SB in 3rd division, then how high should they be in 1st division? 25 ID + 30 SB?
Maybe skill scale works from higher to lower division, but for sure it doesn't work from lower to higher. In lower division you can train outside shooting for 32yo C, who has JR=1 and manage enthusiasm and gameshape better than opponents and win easily. I checked in buzzer-manager that since season 24 you played practically only RNG. And after few seasons most of your opponents still don't use GPD against you. So I doubt that they are demanding challenge.
Block is my favorite action in real basketball. But it doesn't work in BB.