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My opponent ended up with 7 timeouts by the end of tonight's game.

(10665383)

Yes, it appears that teams are awarded an extra timeout at the start of overtime. I expect this is completely by design. If so, not a bug.

From NBA rules:

c. In overtime periods each team shall be allowed three (3) 60-second timeouts regardless of the number of timeouts called or remaining during regulation play or previous overtimes. Teams are permitted no more than two timeouts in the last two minutes of the period.

Cool, add that to the "BuzzerBeater uses NBA rules except when it doesn't" list.

well actually add this to the list of things we have fixed in the GE but havent implemented in the flash viewer. in the last code updates i fixed timeouts so they obeyed NBA rules, but the timeout counter doesnt change appropriately in the timeout viewer, however you should note that it does implement the nba rules correctly now.

in the last code updates i fixed timeouts so they obeyed NBA rules

This means that team can take only one 20-second timeout per half, and only two full timeouts in the last two minutes, right?

Shouldn't this also affect the coach AI, where at some point it will be optimal to call a timeout before it expires?

perhaps... i dont know if you see NBA coaches using a lot of timeouts right before 2 minutes because of this rule though. maybe you do... i dunno.

perhaps... i dont know if you see NBA coaches using a lot of timeouts right before 2 minutes because of this rule though. maybe you do... i dunno.

Here is my basic logic on the issue, as it pertains to BB, and that's without having any knowledge of the GE.

(1) Conceptually, taking a timeout should always be better than _not_ taking a timeout; the degree of the benefit can differ, of course, but there shouldn't be a situation in which a team should be made worse off by taking a timeout

(2) Given (1), if the AI coach is optimizing, there shouldn't be a game in which a team ends up not taking all of their timeouts

(3) The meat of the problem is that the coach should attempt to optimize timeout-taking so that he draws the maximum benefit, given the flow of the game (see the second part of statement (1))

(4) As far as whether NBA coaches actually do this -- my impression is that they do. For example, if they haven't taken a 20s timeout for other reasons in the first half, all NBA coaches will call it on the team's final possession for the half so that they can draw a play.

I've never been able to follow full timeouts, since there is an inordinate amount of "timeouts on the floor" for the purpose of advertising -- but I assume that very rarely, if ever, will coaches forfeit timeouts voluntarily.

Again, I know nothing about the GE and coach AI, but I assume it should be possible to introduce the necessary constraints:
* call at least one 20s timeout in the first half
* call at least two full and one 20s timeout and in the first three quarters (rule: no more than 3 timeouts in the last quarter)
* call at least 4 timeouts in the first 46 minutes (rule: no more than 2 timeouts in the last 2 minutes of play)

Plus, I notice there is one important thing which a coach may do with his TOs rather than let them expire: call a TO to make subs. Remember, TOs can also be called when the ball is in a team's possession (as opposed of dead, when you can make subs anyhow).

(1) Conceptually, taking a timeout should always be better than _not_ taking a timeout; the degree of the benefit can differ, of course, but there shouldn't be a situation in which a team should be made worse off by taking a timeout

A lot of what you're saying rests on this, which I don't buy at all. Timeouts are called by one team, but affect both (I assume), in general unequally. If one team can consistently derive more benefit from a timeout, why would the opponent ever call one?

For example, if Team A has a 12-deep roster of identical players, and Team B has 5 skilled starters and useless bench players, and Team A is winning, Team A would practically never call a timeout (assuming one of the main reasons for timeouts is a bit of recovery of stamina-related loss).

Last edited by Mod-oeuftete at 04/09/2009 12:17:05

I meant a timeout should be beneficial for _your_ team. They shouldn't affect both teams equally, because the coach calling the timeout generally has something in particular to say.

edit: The timeout call AI is due for a serious revision anyhow. I was just outscored 27-14 with 6 commited fouls in a quarter (going from up 11 to down 2), and still have 6 timeouts left.

There is no way this should happen, and I don't understand how it did happen. In the process of going down 11, the other team called 3 timeouts. I didn't call a single one during their comeback. What the...?!

edit2: 9-2 in the first 2:30 of the following quarter with 3 fouls, still no timeout...



Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 04/09/2009 12:51:59

I believe that there are TV timeouts in the NBA that are charged to one team's allotment, correct?